84 thoughts on “What the New ‘Concealed Carry’ Gun Law Could Mean for NYC

  1. Well the one thing just really agitates New York City because the New York State and New York City have two different permits. I New York City permit you can carry in the state of New York and New York state permit you can only carry in New York State not in New York City. Yes you can get a waiver from the police commissioner to carry concealed in New York City but it’s difficult. New York State does not except permit from any other state.

    Plus New York City has its own set of regulations and laws on long guns and handguns. Which are different than the rest of the state of New York.

    The big problem is the 12 states that constitutional carry states because all the state Will have to agree to requirements for carry concealed. But their will need to be law enforcement training on how to handle a situation with a carry concealed weapon holder from another state with weapons.

    But I love New York City wants to put on fees or taxes for someone from out of state yeah that’s in a go over well.

    • thank God that House Republicans want to ensure that people who don’t know the difference between “except” and “accept” can carry guns anywhere they want. I feel safer already.

      • Well, since you’re going to cheap shot the guy on grammar Joe, maybe you ought to capitalize the first word of your first sentence? Just say’n…

        A neighbor taught me a LOT about gun safety. He could read and write and do basic math. He definitely wasn’t brilliant, and made grammar mistakes. But apparently you think he’d be “under qualified” to carry a gun, because of this?

    • A permit will be REQUIRED under the bill. ALL of the Constitutional Carry states provide a process for a resident to get a paper permit that NYC officers can look at (and read if they choose) before they must respect it. The law provides NO protection from arrest or prosecution for separate conduct that endangers others. The Sky has not fallen in over 40 states, it will not fall in NYC.

    • Its about time they need to pass this law so law abiding citizens can carry concealed and keep the city safe from these criminals the police cannot do it alone it will take the law abiding citizen to get involved and make the city safe once and for all

      • I am a New Yorker and I can’t wait till they pass it because you can’t tell people not to do something when they’re not criminals.. and I’m a black man they need to pass .. that’s why I like Trump trump is forcing it to pass certain things that a lot of small minority’s don’t like and I mean small minority group cuz that’s the basic what it is it’s not a big majority too small of them and they trying to control people lives that’s what I don’t like..

        • You right they they try to control people lives yeah they do and New York City alone New York state that’s what they do out here it’s a small minority group but like 70% of New Yorkers want that gun license to be passed that’s why I like Donald Trump too and I’m a black man I’m telling you that and it’s thousands hundreds of thousands just like me of course the state of New York New York City it’s ridiculous what they do up here in New York state map

    • I think the Upstate Downstate barrier in concealed carry is ludicrous.
      Upstater here.
      I am also running for U.S. Senate and would be for allowing Upstate concealed carry have reciprocity in NYC but not for out of staters as the commissioner wants at this point.

    • All I want to know is what part of the phrase “Shall Not Be Infringed” from the 2nd Amendment don’t people understand? There is no “discretion” when it comes to the US Constitution….ANY law abiding US citizen HAS the right (not “should”) to keep and bear arms….PERIOD….I do agree with background checks, prohibiting convicted felons and those with a mental illness history from obtaining a firearm-I’m even ok with no firearms in Government buildings, schools, etc…..beyond that, the Second Anendment guarantees any other citizen the right to carry a firearm. I would even be ok with treating it the a driver’s license-you would have to demonstrate a minimum proficiency with handling & storing a firearm, education regarding potential legal issues if you have to use it and qualifying at a range to be licensed. All this “you can’t get a permit in NYC unless you are a politician, celebrity or very, very wealthy” or anywhere else that has similar restrictions is a blatant VIOLATION of our Constitutional rights!!!

        • No. The militia (military and police) are to be well regulated. The right of the PEOPLE to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed. The Federalist makes this distinction quite clear. No interpretation necessary. They wanted anything government/security related to be well regulated but they wanted the people in general to have the right to bear arms in a way that could not be infringed. Study a bit more.

          It is quite common sense to require SOME hoops. But NYC takes this to a level that definitely infringes on the right of the people to bear arms. Background checks? Sure. Perhaps required training too. Maybe a nice waiting period. And include mental health as part of the background check. But the crap you have to go through in NYC is ridiculous, making an unarmed populace the subjects of armed authorities, precisely the OPPOSITE of what the Founders intended.

          They have it backwards. Material wealth shouldn’t be the sole justification for a private citizen to bear arms. My child is worth more to me than ANY celebrity’s wealth or whatever a shop owner carries in a deposit bag. But we all know NY as a state sucks are protecting kids, despite their draconian and irrational gun laws. Note the murder rates in CA and NY and tell me why strict gun laws are necessary. Funny how the list above grades states… Basically the LOWER the grade they give a state the lower the percapita gun murder rate. LOL

          Something libs just can’t seem to understand is the basic fact that criminals DEFY laws by definition. They have a state where only criminals and cops have guns (and criminals outnumber the cops) because the laws and regulations they impose are ONLY obeyed by the mindless sheep law abiding citizens that like living in that Orwellian nightmare called NYC. I never feel safe when I visit NYC and ALWAYS feel safe in VA. Yet they get an A and VA gets a D? Priorities!

  2. Concealed carry permit holders are, as a group, more law abiding than police officers. They respect the law.

    Criminals, on the other hand, don’t care about the law.

    Why do you want to make it harder for the former to visit, while making it easier for the latter to prey on visitors – and residents, for that matter?

      • Your point being??
        You seam to be implying that theirs a positive correlation between individuals with concealed-carry permits vs those without?
        It’s true, if I was planning a murder or robbery I would certainly get a permit for the sake of ease itself having my weapon on hand if I needed it in the event an opportunity.
        However it’s definitely a double edged sword as they have all your information if your ever recognized, caught, etc.
        On the other hand how many criminals plan their crimes meticulously using weapons and how many are crimes of passion or opportunity using a weapon. And then what would be the cumulative determinant effect of not carrying a weapon legally..?
        My guess is it’s minimal.
        None of that really matters though bc weapons are legal so that people can defend themselves from people who have already decided that they’re not concerned with obeying the laws.

        And it’s important for intelligent people like me to point out the fear-based reactionary and short-sighted appeals like those from people like you.

        • Right on! If you feared for your family and childrens life, and your weopon is available, i don’ think you’d give two shits what the restrictions says if its registered go for it. Them Dem. politicians don’t care about your family , they got their own police bodyguards.

          • I am a licensed,certified and qualified New York State armed guard and have to qualify at the range every year and take a 16 hour course annually total cost of $250 a year. For 41 years They still try to restrict me from carrying when I am off duty in Nassau and Suffolk county long Island. NY. If you really want to hear something totally asinine.

          • OMG there’s somebody real smart and make a lot of sense out there, you hit the nail right on the head. When it come to you and your family you don’t care. Just carry and use your head . A lot of people R doing it now. Because when something does happens you will regret it for the rest of your life and hate yourself for it. To a point where you will never be the same because you lost a love one especially if you Own it but didn’t carry it because they told you no. Keep in mind in New York City they make it the law anywhere else in New York State it’s only a local restriction .

      • There are FAR more deaths yearly due to drunken driving than from firearms, and certainly more due to shootings from concealed weapons permit holders. A person could go out on a Friday night and get a drunk driving, (still drive until their court appearance) kill a family in a car accident on Saturday night, while drunk, and go buy a new car on Sunday and start all over again. Do we outlaw cars? Alcohol? Besides the writer of the “concealed carry killers” is obviously anti-gun. Look up the proposed bill, do your own research, look up other data before forming your opinion from one antigun website.

      • They save far more lives and btw Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606). “only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.”

        Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.

        According to Criminalogist Dr. Gary Kleck that number is much higher though. I highly suggest you read his book Guns and Violence in America.

        As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.

        Medical Malpractice, Pools, and cars all kill far more people then this and yet gun control advocates don’t want to ban hospitals, swimming, or cars.

        Hospitals are not designed to kill people and yet through medical malpractice and accidents they kill more people then guns do.

        Why don’t we ban hospitals? Because they save lives? Well guns do to.

          • Wow? What is so wow about it?

            I will give you a Wow. How about WOW, when some ANTI-Free Speechers start lobbying the government to require you to have a permit, pay for a license, and go to a class in order to give your opinion here, on facebook or even protest with a sign in front of a capital building or any other public place as is the right of the 1st amendment. Then come talk to me or anyone else about the our freedoms guaranteed by our bill of rights being restricted, highly regulated and/or taken away completely.

            If you don’t believe in the bill of rights and are willing to support “shall not be infringed” from the 2nd amendment, why should I or anyone else support not “abridging the freedom of speech”. One thing you have to remember is that the Bill of Rights is so well written that one amendment doesn’t work without the others.

            You really should think before you respond

          • First, there are clear public-interest limitations on the right to free speech. A doctor or nurse can’t blab my private medical details to the world. You can’t publicly threaten the president. You can’t yell “fire” (when there isn’t a fire) in a crowded theater. You can’t divluge state secrets. If you libel someone, you can face a civil judgment. Hate crimes laws punish criminal acts more harshly when accompanied by expression that would otherwise be First Amendment-protected. The list goes on.

            Second, these limitations exist even though the First Amendment contains no language parallel to the Second Amendment’s “a well-regulated milita” qualifier. That suggests even the Framers foresaw more reason to restrict the Second Amendment than the First.

            Third, the primary purpose of speech is not to kill. Guns are deadly weapons — that is their sole purpose, either to kill or to impose the threat of killing. The parallel to a written word, placard or statement simply does not exist.

            Fourth, speech–with some exceptions, but not ones that would be relevant to the parallel you’ve tried to draw–is by nature public. If I rant about something crazy, you know it — you can avoid me. You can call the cops if you think a riot is going to break out so they can deal with it. You can defend yourself simply by screaming back. Concealed firearms, by definition, cannot be seen. You cannot know someone has one until its too late, and you cannot defend yourself unless you are similarly armed.

            Take care now.

  3. Is there no statistics on visitors and crime? I would guess that visitors are victims statistically more than locals. I would also assume those visitors can’t protect themselves from the criminals nor local beat cops.

  4. “[It] would breed hostility and disrespect for the law,” he says. “It would also mean that other states could put CRIMINAL New Yorkers at risk.”


  5. “However, Jacobs notes, a federal law that enables people from other states to carry guns in New York City at the same time as local law prevents New York State residents from carrying guns in the city would create confusion and erode the existing law.

    “[It] would breed hostility and disrespect for the law,” he says. “It would also mean that other states could put New Yorkers at risk.””

    The Sullivan Laws and the way they are enforced breed hostility and disrespect. It would be hard for anything to make that worse.

    NY and NJ have brought this on themselves for prosecuting people traveling through their states while legally transporting firearms.

  6. New York is a hell hole.

    If marriage license is recognized in all 50 states then a concealed carry license should be too. The liberal morons are lying about guns again. The mentally ill Nancy Pelosi said that passing this law would mean criminals could legally carry guns on the streets. Such complete lies. Criminals cannot carry any guns. Period.

      • They do get them, that is why the NCIS system in flawed and needs to be fixed, I had 3 background checks in NJ before legally obtaining a handgun to carry while traveling. NJ does not issue carry permits much like NY City. I could very easily commit a felony by carrying in Pennsylvania and crossing over into NJ with a loaded gun on my way home, prior to unloading it and putting it in a locked case, should I forget to stop in Pennsylvania. These gun laws do nothing to protect the people, it protects the criminals that can prey on an unarmed person that is unable to defend themselves, and the criminals know it. Why do you think there are car jackings every day in areas with tough or nearly impossible concealed carry laws? Take this article for instance http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-carjack-20170211-story.html

        Maryland is very difficult to get a concealed carry license, violent crime in Baltimore is up 55%. The criminals still have the guns, most of them probably stolen from peoples homes, because they were not able to be carried on their person, which is the safest place for a firearm, as it is under your direct control. I worry about my gun being at home and the possibility of a break in. Hope this may change your opinion a little.

  7. Vermont…shares a border with New York, and has more relaxed gun control…and has a far lower gun murder rate…..which is not possible according to anti gun groups, since the lax gun laws should lead to more gun deaths, not less. And as Pew research has shown, as more Americans own and carried guns from the 1990s to today, our gun murder rate went down 49%….our gun crime rate went down 75%….and our violent crime rate went down 72%….there is nothing that the anti gun groups claim about law abiding people carrying guns that is even close to being true.

  8. I last visited NYC in March 1975. I have CHOSEN not to return.
    Now that I carry all the time (because “random violence” is … you know … random) staying out of NYC (and other such locations) is essential to my personal safety. At my age, over 65, I can neither shout loudly, run, or fight. I need a tool. I have one.
    I will not leave home without it.
    If our general road trip budget holds true, that is $10,000 of lost revenue every time we
    CHOSE to avoid NYC. Consider that there are tens of millions of folks like me and it becomes “real” money even in Big Apple terms.

    • You do realize that crime has fallen, um, somewhat in New York City in the last 42 years, right? And also that NYC go 50 million tourists last year?

      Point is: I think you’d be OK if you came. And, economically, we’ll be OK if you don’t.

      But if you really drop $10K on every road trip, can I please come on the next one?

      • ….and you are aware the gun laws have been loosened in recent years right?

        Residents of any state including New York can even get a carry permit.

        That being said a non-resident risks a felony even if they carry a unloaded firearm in their vehicle locked in a safe and separate from the ammo.

        Are you aware that Truck Drivers sometimes transport guns and electrics worth millions of dollars.

        A armoured truck driver is allowed to carry a gun, and issued body armor in order to transport hundreds of thousands of dollars and yet we have these dudes occasionally driving around trailers loaded with millions of dollars worth of goods at a time including guns and yet they shouldn’t be able to even have a gun locked in their truck locked in a case separate from the ammo?

        They get killed btw. They get robbed. Routinely they have to park in bad neighborhoods when they run out of hours that they are legally allowed to drive….and sometimes they are hauling a trailers full of guns or electronics.

        Now the thing is that these people have to drive into New York all the time and they live out of the truck. So you think that they don’t deserve the ability to protect themselves? I mean they will be arrested for a felony if guns are discovered in their truck even if they are unloaded and locked in a safe that’s bolted to the frame and stored separate from the ammo.

        You think that they should be arrested for a felony?

        This is exactly why National Reciprocity is going to pass and up NYC’s pooper if they don’t like it.

        That state has been terrorising law abiding citizens and ignoring the second amendment long enough and it’s time to pass federal laws to stop their unconstitutional malarkey.

        They could have been reasonable and allowed a way for non-residents to obtain a permit but they decided to be pricks and because of that soon we will pass National Reciprocity and they will lose millions of your states tax dollars trying to fight it just like Illinios after they tried to fight concealed carry.

        Reciprocity will pass. NYC and state will fight it I’m sure, and in the end they will pay millions of dollars to the NRA and to their victims.

      • And that same theory has worked SO WELL in Chicago. Same super-strict “mommy may I? Pretty Please???” laws, but their crime is going through the roof. The honest citizens can’t arm and the criminals Do Not Care if there are lots and lots of laws. They seem to prefer it.

        Like Old Lawyer, I won’t be going to NYC either. Too much hassle. If you like living there, with super strict nanny-city, on top of nanny-state laws, go for it. I’d just like to see something where I don’t have to look up states and figure out if they’re going to arrest me and throw away the key for something that’s completely LEGAL in my home state.

        I like the fact that my wife can open-carry here without even needing a permit, if she feels the need. Like at the rest stop she uses every time she goes into the city, and stops at on the way home. In the dark. Miles from a police station. Did I mention there’s a truck stop right next to the rest stop?

        While NYC may be ‘safer than ever’, they STILL had a hundred more murders than my entire STATE. So, meh, you can keep it. I’ll keep my guns & my liberty.

        For the record, I don’t spend a whole lot when I go on vacation, so NYC isn’t missing out on that much. Cheap hotels, etc. I did spend close to $5k to go to Israel, my most expensive trip ever. I don’t suggest you go there. There, people don’t just carry guns, they carry machine guns.

        • Robin, what state do you live in? I’d be curious to know its population. Keep in mind that New York City’s population of 8.5 million exceeds that of 39 of the 50 states. California, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, New Jersey are the only ones that are larger. So unless you live in one of those places, it is still possible that my world is safer than yours in terms of violence per capita, which is what matters.

          As far as liberty goes, when NYC was in the bad old days and mothers in some neighborhoods were having their kids sleep in bathtubs in case bullets punctured their apartment walls … well, I am sure those kids really enjoyed their Second Amendment rights.

          Chicago is a horrible situation, but I think different from New York’s in that the state of Illinois and the surrounding states tend to have more lax gun laws than New York State and its neighbors, as a group. It’s a lot easier for guns to get into Chicago than into the five boroughs. Cities can impose laws but not erect border checks, of course.

          I understand the desire to feel safe and I hope you and yours always are. Just one question: What happens if one of the guys at the truck stop has a gun, too? What if he’s faster, luckier, better equipped? If merely having a firearm were a guarantee of safety, the NYPD memorial wall would have a lot fewer names on it.

  9. Pingback: What the New ‘Concealed Carry’ Gun Law Could Mean for NYC

  10. I believe all states should allow conceal carry. Maybe criminal would think twice about doing a crime if they didn’t know who carried or not.

  11. It’s the same old tired story from the uninformed anti gun lobby. By somehow making it next to impossible for responsible citizens to carry a handgun in NYC we are safer. The truth is exactly the opposite. I have a NYC unrestricted concealed business carry permit and will not leave my home without my concealed firearm. I and my family are safer and I pose no threat to anyone beacause I carry concealed. The bad guys do not care about the gun laws and will illegally carry concealed. They are emboldened in NYC because the odds are in thier favor when they pull a gun on someone in NYC the victim will most likely be unarmed and they know it. How is that good for anyone but the bad guys?

    • What do you suppose the city’s decreasing number of shootings and murders says about your thesis? It does not appear as though emboldened bad guys are doing much damage, does it?

      • You also conveniently leave out armed robberies which do not end up with shootings or murders just victimized unarmed citizens. Those crimes ( at least those which are reported) are up exponentially in NYC . If you wish to play the statistics game discuss all the relevant ones not just those which fit your narrative.

        • According to the NYPD, my thesis is correct. In the year 2000, there were 32,500 robberies in New York City. In 2016, there were 15,500. The number has trended down pretty much year over year. Year to date in 2017, it’s down about 10 percent over 2016.

          Like other violent crime in NYC, the robbery numbers keep trending down, year after year, despite our incredibly strict gun laws. What gun crime we have often involves guns that come from other states with more porous laws, and that’s why the prospect of people having the right to stroll into town carrying one or more guns bothers many New Yorkers.

          I happen to like guns (I used to shoot with .22s in the Boy Scouts and since then have had a chance to fire a 12-guarge shotgun, a snub-nosed .38, a .45, a .30-06 hunting rifle and what I think was an SVT-40, some kind of bolt-action Soviet assault rife) and I like the gun owners I have met, mainly cops and hunters. If my kids were older and I lived in the country I’d certainly own a gun, as I’d love to get me some self-sourced venison.

          What’s really bothersome to me about the concealed-carry movement, however, is the totally baseless fear of crime that motivates it–a paranoia that is cynically stoked by the gun manufacturers, the gun lobbying groups and their arsenal of glossy gun publications. We have documented how these organizations toggle between hyping the threat of crime or amping up the threat that the federal government is going to come take your guns away. As consumers, gun owners get manipulated into financing the saturation of our our country with weapons. And given that suicide is the biggest impact of guns, that puts those owners and their families at risk as much as the rest of us. Just don’t seem right, to me.

          • I guess we could cite statistics which support our respective positions to each other adnauseam. Rather than engage in those mental gymnastics ( more people drown in back yard swimming pools each year than by handguns ; that has been true for the past 25 years) the real issue is what is the compelling reason to restrict my 2nd amendment right.

          • Ah, interesting move there — lose a statistical argument about armed robberies in NYC as a rationale to carry guns here, and then decide that those statistics don’t matter! I hope you shoot better than you argue.

            The comparisons of gun deaths to hospital malpractice and backyard pools are bizarre. Last I checked backyard pools don’t slaughter first-graders by the dozens, and even the sloppiest surgeon has never butchered 50 people to death from a hotel window. And the idea of banning hospitals being parallel to banning guns is just too silly to bother arguing out.

            Oh, and there is ample evidence that firearms are more effective at suicide than other methods, meaning people who have access to that method are least likely to get a second chance, and they also lend themselves to impulsive suicide attempts more than virtually any other method.

            The compelling reason is pretty simple: The city has a right to regulate or at least know who on its streets has access to concealed, deadly weapons — that whole “well-regulated militia” clause again! — and it shouldn’t have to rely on other states that have manifestly different approaches to gun regulation to have made sure the people carrying them on our crowded streets aren’t insane or criminals.

          • I’m wondering why my previous post asking for a compelling reason to infringe upon my 2nd amendment rights has not been posted or responded to.

            The silence of the decision to neither post the question nor a compelling argument speaks volumes and ; is deafening!

          • Take a chill pill, gunslinger! I take Saturdays off from responding to fan mail. Your post is up and replied to. Happy New Year!

          • Anyone who tries to use suicides committed by firearms as an argument against private gun ownership by law abiding citizens must be either a complete fool or deliberately deceptive.

            Even if you could keep a suicidal person from getting a firearm there is nothing stopping them from swallowing a bottle of pills and chugging a fifth of whiskey or jumping in front of a train, or running at a cop with a knife or jumping off a cliff.

          • Most illegal ghost guns on the black market in the United States aren’t manufacturered in the United States but are actually made illegaly in other countries by skilled machinists part by part useing a lathe and other common tools and it’s actually illegal to even have guns in some of these Countries and then they are smuggled into the United States illegally.

            The reason guns are not often manufactured illegaly in the US is that it is so much cheaper for criminal organizations to have machinists in other countries make these ghost guns and then smuggle them into the United States.

            A gang such as the crips, bloods, ms13, or the Irish, Russian, or Italian mafias can easily put some of their dudes through machinist training and through classes get their skills up high enough where their guys can make AK-47s and 1911s.

            Not to mention if they had to they could even make their own magazines, gunpowder, and bullets.

            So how exactly do you think these unconstitutional evil laws that make it harder for the law abiding to defend themselves help keep criminals from getting guns?

            They don’t.

      • Generally speaking gun laws have been becoming looser and crime rates have been going down.

        But the way that New York tries to deprive American Citizens of the right to defend themselves is out right evil especially considering how long it takes police to respond.

        Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.

        According to Criminalogist Dr. Gary Kleck that number is much higher though. I highly suggest you read his book Guns and Violence in America.

        As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.

        Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606). “only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.”

        There are only around 5000 homicides by firearms in the year in the US a country with a population of over 300,000,000 citizens.

        Medical Malpractice, Pools, and cars all kill far more people then this and yet gun control advocates don’t want to ban hospitals, swimming, or cars.

        Hospitals are not designed to kill people and yet through medical malpractice and accidents they kill more people then guns do.

        Why don’t we ban hospitals? Because they save lives? Well guns do to.

        • Suck me, I’m not sure what numbers you are seeing. When I go to the FBI’s uniform crime reporting site and check on the NYC numbers for 2013 and 2016, I get the numbers below, which show drops in every category but rape. (For some weird reason, NYC never reports arson numbers, so that category is omitted.) The jump in rape looks huge, but that is at least partly to do with an expansion of the definition of race that the FBI imposed in the intervening years (details here).

          You noted in one of your other comments, several of which I had to delete for profanity, that not all crimes are reported. That is certainly true. But unless there’s strong reason to believe crimes are less likely to be reported now than they were three years ago, the crime stats still provide some indication of public safety trends. And that evidence is overwhelming: New York City is a far safer place than it used to be in spite of the near total absence of a legally armed citizenry.

          Certainly there are places in New York that are still dangerous, especially for young people. My block in the Norwood section of Bronx had an NYPD light on it for several months in 2015 because of a raft of shootings. NYPD helicopters comb my backyard with their spotlight at least two or three times a summer looking for someone. But most of us get by just fine without packing heat. It’s rational for some New Yorkers to still feel threatened by crime. But that doesn’t mean it’s rational to carry a gun.

          2013 2016 % change
          Population 8396126 8566917 2.03%
          Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 335 335 0.00%
          Rape 1112 2372 113.31%
          Robbery 19170 15544 -18.91%
          Aggravated assault 31767 30873 -2.81%
          Burglary 16606 12041 -27.49%
          Larceny-theft 117931 106868 -9.38%
          Motor vehicle theft 7434 6369 -14.33%
  12. NYC is now the land of the rich or poor. Middle class people have been chased out since the 1970s when Liberal Mayor Lindsay, gave parity to Fire Police and Sanitation. This means that when one group gets a raise the other two get a raise in salary. NYC Fire Police and Sanitation workers earn $100,000 after a few years on the job. I met a retire Sanitation Executive from NYC… he said his biggest job was dealing with workers complaining that they ONLY made $100,000 per year; to executives earning $150,000 per year. He retired after 30 years earning $180,000 per year. Its salaries like this that have driven out the middle class from the NYC. You now have the poor and the rich. We see it in the politics. We have Liberal Democrats that are milking the system, dry. Conservative middle class people have left NYC and NYC will be doomed when the SHTF. Ragnar Benson, a survivalist author with 50+ years of experience ( he has lived and studied the economies of 50+ countries in his studies and travels) says that this time of economic upheaval, it won’t be like 2008 or 1929. When the SHTF the economy will be “down” for 6-10 years…..NOW is the time to flee all major cities. I really don’t care what happens to NYC. Unfortunately I live in NY State but I live far enough away so that when a nuke hits NYC…I will be safe…..To use a popular idiom…..as far as NYC goes when the SHTF…” FORGET about it!”….

  13. I think there are other reasons for it, one for sure is the crack epidemic that plagued many areas back in the late 80’s-90’s, I live in Asbury Park, NJ which back in those years if you walked the streets, there was a almost guarantee of getting robbed or worse, it has undergone a re-gentrification. Are drugs still a problem, sure, but they have taken it off the street corner like it was years ago, there are many reasons that crime falls, lack of guns aren’t one of them, there are still shooting every weekend in Newark, Camden, Baltimore, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York and many others, the criminals do get guns and don’t care that they are breaking the law carrying them. Permit holders hope they never have to defend themselves, at least I do, but I have decided to carry a firearm when I travel, but could easily become an instant felon with the complicated mish-mash of firearms laws nationally, look them up, and try to figure out what is legal everywhere, this proposed law makes that a little easier for people that have decided to carry for protection of themselves or others.

  14. I if you pass your drivers license test in New York that your drivers license is only good in New York and not in any other state. It’s common sense car legislation and you are insane if you disagree and also you want criminals to get cars and drive drunk and run over puppies if you disagree with me.

    Jay Leno owns 286 vehicles (169 automobiles and 117 motorcycles.) Why does anyone need that many death machines?

    I propose common sense car legislation that would make it illegal to own more then 2 cars and 3 motorcycles.

    Furthermore we need to regulate horse powder. It should be illegal for a vehicle to be able to go over 70 miles per hour.

    Why do you need an evil race car? Only police, and EMTs/paramedics should be able to get vehicles that go over 70. That’s why I’m proposing legislation that would classify any car or motorcycle capable of going over 70 miles per hour as a race car and making them legal only for the police, military, and paramedics.

    Think of the children! Hurr Durr, derpity, derpa derpa, derka derka derk.

    • Unless you are a very large person or drive a very, very small car, I don’t think most vehicles can be carried concealed. What’s more, states do have speed limits, do require a test for a driver’s license with regular renewals, and do require cars to be registered and regularly inspected for emissions. So, while humorous, your parallel might not be all that helpful to your argument.

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  16. This national concealed carry law is a good idea.New York City and State anti Gun laws are unconstitutional and the federal government has spoken. Why should only Police be armed with guns. If it were not for armed citizens this country would still be under the control of the British. Its time we exercise our 2nd amendment rights, and are allowed to bear arms.NYC and State anti guns laws are not in the interests of the citizens.We don’t need a police state were only Police and criminals are armed.

  17. Although I’m a 2nd Amendment proponent, I see the argument for banning guns in large cities. The likelihood of often poorly-trained and practiced CCW permit holders hitting the wrong person in a densely populated area is quite high. If they’re going to allow concealed weapons in NYC, particularly in Manhattan, they should require at least yearly recertification in a weapons handling and accuracy test. The prospect of some folks I know who have CCWs in more suburban areas needing to use them in the city scares me to death.

    As is the case in Virginia, my home state, I also don’t think people should be allowed to CCW in bars. Where alcohol/drugs are involved, I think that’s simply a bad idea. Common sense. A top NYPD detective I met at a bar told me he never brings his gun into a bar when he goes out—a, his wife won’t let him; b, he knows it’s a foolish idea.

    Schools and churches are a different story to me. Those have been the sites of mass shootings in recent years, so why not? If anything, I think if teachers were armed and students knew it, you’d see a LOT less school shootings. Same goes for churches and other public places.

    Guns are the great equalizer. They allow women, historically powerless to rapists, robbers, and other criminals, to pose a legitimate enough threat to ward them off. They allow private, law-abiding citizens in dangerous areas to feel, and probably be, more safe.

    But after all, isn’t peace of mind in and of itself valuable? The feeling of security and safety are probably more important than actual security and safety, since fear is at the heart of any criminal confrontation, both for the criminal (“am I going to get this money/rape this woman/get away with this?”) and the victim (“am I going to be OK? Is my stuff going to be stolen or my body violated?”).

    The mere feeling of knowing you have legitimate protection against threats and against fear should be more than enough reason to have a CCW. That sentiment is undervalued in the arguments people make for (and against) the concealed carry of weapons.

    • Very interesting points, rationally argued. I guess one question is, is the peace of mind warranted? That is to say, do people with guns always succeed at protecting themselves? And then there’s the question of whether the mere perception of safety, especially one premised on an inflated sense of the dangers of life without a gun, outweighs the risks of combined carry for cities and for individuals?

  18. Concealed carry permit holders are, as a group, more law abiding than police officers. They respect the law.

    Criminals, on the other hand, don’t care about the law.

    Why do you want to make it harder for the former to visit, while making it easier for the latter to prey on visitors – and residents, for that matter?

  19. “The NYPD charges a non-refundable fee of $340 for a handgun license plus $87 for fingerprinting.”

    Not mentioned: This fee also applies to people that merely wish to keep a firearm in their house but not carry it in public.

    Also Not mentioned: You must pay this fee every two years. You must also pay to be fingerprinted again every two years.

    They’ve made guns completely illegal for regular folk but ok for wealthy people that can afford them.

    Also with the fees is a web of paperwork that often traps and imprisons honest people trying to do the right thing.

  20. I just left NYC after living there 8 yrs and my career finally had taken off and I almost died. I was put into a choke hold and also was beaten after I passed out. Not only did they catch me on the one block that didn’t have camera apparently but the 71 precinct laughed at me and refused to take my report when I had my face beaten in so badly that you couldn’t recognize me. My front tooth was chipped and when I woke up I was told that they were going to chop my body up and dispose of my body! Never in my life have I ever experienced something so terrifying and in that moment knowing that I may actually be killed. In the law of someone puts you in a choke hold that is considered deadly force and you have the right to defend yourself. Why as a female do I not have the right to protect myself? Why does NYC not only refuse and laugh about me being beaten tells me “you women want equal rights then it doesn’t matter the size of a man that beats on a woman” so am I supposed to rely on them for them to show up and take my report, let alone whether they show up and or how many hours before they show up, and I’m supposed to intrust that the nypd is going to get there in time to save my life let alone show up at all… never in my life have I experienced this from police or been brutally beaten and your worried about crimes!?!?! Statistics show that women walking alone at night of they show that you have mace or a weapon they are most likely going to wait for a different, less confrontational victim. Less crime happens in city’s that allow you to carry, why is hat you may ask? Because if they know you are packing or that you possibly could be concealing one less crime will occur because they will wait for the person who won’t fight back, or just change their minds. But I’m sorry whether your religious, spiritual, or not… humans instinct is to survive, and you should be able to protect yourself with the same force that others try and so why does NYC get to dictate whether you have the right to save your life? This shouldn’t be about anything else other than having the right to fight for your life, people carrying concealed weapons they’d have everyone’s finger prints, guns would be traced, and all citizens will have their finger prints and weapons in the system, thus easier to track down and find you and keep tabs. Now why do you think people buy illegally (yes I know there’s many reasons but this is the one I would like to point out) because they want to defend their life bc they’d rather get locked up than die. they’d rather get locked up then see anything that happen to their loved ones. Wouldn’t you want that for you or for your family? So why can’t everyone especially knowing that people are less likely to attack knowing if ur packing

  21. So NYC got more power than the federal government i thought federal law is applicable in all 50 state we all screw living in tha apartheid state of new york

  22. YOU wrote “Relatively few civilians possess firearms and the vast majority who do lack a license that allows them to leave their home with their gun.”

    Says an alien enemy writer who knows absolutely NOTHING about America And Americans!! You’re OUT, LOSER!!

  23. Marriage Licenses, Drivers Licenses, and CCW Licenses should all be treated the same — recognized across state lines throughout the United States of America — especially since one of them is a protected Human Right as per the U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights Article II. Additionally, consider the U.S. Constitution › Article IV — Full Faith and Credit clause.

    • Fair point. Yet teaching certifications, bar admissions, even fishing licenses (the one I know from personal experience) don’t extend across state lines, and perhaps for good reason: because states want to be able to create criteria tailored to their unique situations.

      • Ideally, as a Human Right protected by the U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights Article II, there should NOT even be a License or “permit” required (as currently occurs in at least a dozen states).

        Suppose you were required by a state to first apply, qualify, and pay for a voting license (poll tax), a free speech license or religious waiver license to practice your faith (both the latter are protected by the U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights Article I). That would be a true and justified outrage, correct? Why must U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights Article II Protections be enforced any differently or less vigorously? Why is one Constitutionally Protected Human Right treated differently than the others?

        Remember, Government does NOT create or grant G-d given Human Rights, but is Constitutionally entrusted with the duty of protecting them against their infringement! To do otherwise eventually leads down the road to tyranny.

        Bill of Rights Enforcement:
        Do it for the Children!

        • There is a rich and reasonable history of government regulating the exercise of certain rights simply because their unfettered exercise by one could infringe on the rights of others. We have freedom of speech, but you need a license to use the broadcast spectrum, because that is a finite resource and if everyone just broadcasted at whatever frequency they wanted they’d destroy the resource for everyone. There is freedom of assembly, but large marches or demonstrations require a permit to ensure the crowd and others are safe. We are free to exercise whatever religion we want, but not to impose it on others: A public-school teacher can’t make students pray to their God, a company can’t hire or fire based on an applicant or employee’s religion. Firearms clearly have externalities that recommend some form of regulation.

          Frankly, your comment that a dozen states require NO permit is an argument against permit reciprocity. It’s indicative of the variations in state laws. If there were similar variations in how driver’s licenses were handed out — if you could go to Connecticut or Oregon to get behind an 18-wheeler without passing a driving test or undergoing an eye exam, you can bet that there’d be strong (and justified) resistance to honoring drivers’ licenses across state borders.

          It’s government’s job to enforce human rights. But that’s not its only job.

  24. Let’s stop it with all the nonsense rhetoric about “gun control is disarming the proletariat”

    First of all, most Americans do not own guns – gun ownership has been on the decline in this country for the last 50 years – from 50% of Americans owning guns in the 1960s to barely 25% today.

    In the modern US, gun owners fall into four broad categories

    – people who own a gun for work (police officers, security guards, armored truck drivers, jewelry store owners etc)

    – people who participate in gun sports (hunters, target shooters – this category has been shrinking for decades – hunting is a dying sport in America, and target shooting is in sharp decline – FWIW I myself am a former target shooter)

    – criminals

    – racist reactionaries hoarding guns for the future race war

    You really can’t speak of an “armed proletariat” here

    We sure as hell don’t have any kind of labor militias or workers defense guards

    You can speak of gun companies marketing guns to White men as a way of boosting your masculinity and resisting “feminism” and “the homosexual lobby” ..and, of course, “protecting yourself’ (from Blacks….that’s the dog whistle part of the marketing pitch.

    In the event of a revolution in this country, the last two cohorts of gun owners – career criminals and racist suburban White gun nuts – would be the nucleus of the counterrevolution

    For that reason, the American left would be wise to support gun control

    There’s also the small matter of the wildly popular mass movement for gun control that’s captured the imagination of the youth of this country….

  25. To quote the NRA: ” the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun “. I know that this quite simplistic. However, the response time of the police to a gun involved incident is quite slow and whatever happens will most likely be long over by the time the police arrive. I have served in the USAF,USN, and the FDNY and I can handle any weapon
    that the state and city would let me carry. I know that CCW is not for everyone. Those that can
    qualify should be allowed to by an easy policy, I live in Queens and I would carry.

  26. Pingback: New York City Shop Owners Beg For Weapons as Gov. Cuomo Promises More Gun Control - Concealed Carry News

  27. Pingback: NYC Shop Owners Beg For Weapons, Governor Cuomo Promises Them More Gun Control – Concealed Nation

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  29. It’s true that every state, including New York, allows their citizen to carry concealed firearms for protection during unpredicted situations. My brother is moving to New York for a temporary job assignment, I’ll advise him to make sure that he knows the laws for concealed firearms in that city. It’s always best if people are well educated about their rights.

  30. This is the thing that gets me, there are many responsible individuals who are trained in the field as a security guards and some of us work on many different types of contracts as for me I work on a federal contract and the requirement to maintain my carry-license while on this contract is pretty rigorous and yet I am unable to carry for 24 hours, although I am allowed to carry conceal while going to work and coming back from work I would say a total of about 13 to 14 hrs in total. ( working and traveling back and forth from work per day) . NYPD believes that a person like me and Manny other well trained individuals who have to make a split second decisions in the level of force that should be used who work with the public all year round and meet all training requirements by the state of New York every year should still not be allowed to carry conceal around the clock, my thing is WHY?. As a security guard we all know who is in charge, NYPD New York finest is in charge there’s no question in our minds about that. We live in a world where people are very wicked today the police department cannot be everywhere and when you look and hear the news today that is very clear if train security guards were allowed to carry 24 hours we would more than likely be in areas that the police department would not be as individuals off work we would be in the soft targets mall, parks, churches and many other places where NYPD would not be able to respond as quick. And this is a fact again just look at the headlines of the news every day, you are not safe anywhere anymore unfortunately. Somehow someway you must always be ready to protect yourself and your family this is today’s world and that’s why I say an individual who is qualified should indeed be able to carry 24 hours a day

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