Councilmember Joseph answered questions from CLARIFY student reporters about her priorities for the school system, DOE leadership, addressing the homelessness crisis facing over 100,000 students, school lunches, cell phone bans, and more.

This interview was produced by student reporters in City Limits’ CLARIFY News program, with instruction and editing by Julian Roberts-Grmela. Additional edits by Jeanmarie Evelly.

This fall, as youth journalists taking part in CLARIFY, City Limits’ training program for New York City high school students, we set out to ask questions on behalf of our peers and interview the adults in charge of the city’s school system.

After reaching out to the Department of Education’s press team to request an interview with either the school system’s new leader, Chancellor Melissa Aviles-Ramos, or First Deputy Chancellor Daniel Weisberg—and stating that CLARIFY could make time for them during any of our four remote meetings per week, which are scheduled for seven weeks straight—we were informed that the new chancellor’s “her calendar is super tight.” We also reached out with the same availability to State Sen. John Liu, who is the chair of the State Senate’s New York City Education Committee, we were informed by his press team that he “won’t be able to join” due to his “tight schedule.”

Thankfully, the chair of the City Council’s Committee on Education, Rita Joseph, agreed to join CLARIFY for an interview on Zoom.

Joseph was elected in 2021 to represent parts of Brooklyn, including Flatbush, after serving as a teacher in DOE schools. She answered about 20 questions from student reporters about the City Council’s Committee on Education, her priorities for the school system and more. Joseph talked about DOE leadership, addressing the homelessness crisis facing over 100,000 students, school lunches, cell phone bans, and even (perhaps jokingly) suggested she may run for mayor.

The interview, edited for length and clarity, is below. 

CLARIFY: What are your priorities for the City Council’s Committee on Education this year?

Joseph: For this year, there’s a lot baselining some of the funding that we have in the budget for education so I don’t have to constantly fight for it every year. So baseline, meaning it’s in the budget, and I don’t have to fight for it the following year. I want to baseline a couple of things—for example, mental health continuum, [Students in Temporary Housing] coordinators—those are the things I want to baseline in budget.”

CLARIFY: What are some of the biggest challenges the school system is facing?

Joseph: Oh, wow, there’s quite a few. If I were to go down the line, we have special education, we have transportation, and we still have chronic absenteeism, right? How do we bring students back into schools post-COVID?

One of the other biggest crises I see in New York City public schools—it’s talked about, but not enough—it’s the amount of students we have in temporary housing, which is 10 percent of our New York City students. And prior to the new arrivals coming here, we were already at 114,000 students in temporary housing. So to me, that’s a crisis, not a problem.

CLARIFY: Melissa Aviles Ramos just started as the new chancellor of New York City schools. What, if anything, do you hope that Aviles-Ramos does differently than Chancellor David Banks?

Joseph: Let’s talk about building on what some of the stuff that Chancellor Banks left behind, and then create her own legacy, right? When she leaves, we want to talk about her as well, the great things she’s done, the stuff that she needs to continue to push:  NYC Reads, but making sure educators have the support they need to launch a new reading [curriculum]. When we went to college, they didn’t teach us the science of reading on how to teach reading. They just made you take two reading courses, right? And that was it. So now we need to teach teachers how to teach reading. For our New York City students, if they can read it, we always say they can do anything else.

She’s a good friend. I love and respect her work. She’s like myself, she was an educator too, principal, superintendent. So I’m looking forward to seeing what she does around special education, transportation of our students. We’re still having a lot of issues with transportation. If you watch any of my hearings, I just had a hearing on transportation about two, three weeks ago, and we still see how the system is facing a lot of issues, so we want to make sure we’re fixing that.

CLARIFY: Is there a model school in New York City that you think is doing things right? And if so, which one is it, and what is it that other schools should follow and take example from?

Joseph: One of the things I’ll tell you about New York City Public Schools is there’s a lot of amazing high schools going on in the city, and no one talks about it. No one talks about it. For example, my son attended school, and I really like it. It’s one of the Urban Assembly [affiliate] schools. It’s emergency medicine, it’s P-Tech  [Pathways in Technology] school. And what I like about it is that the child gets to leave high school with an associate degree debt-free. So I like the P-Tech schools. I like the CTE [Career and Technical Education] programming. I have a school that I like, it’s a Chelsea CTE program. By the time you leave, you have a certificate that you can start a career pathway. Not everybody’s gonna go to college. I’m always cognizant about that. For example, I have a cousin who, like myself, was gifted and talented. She decided to become a baker, and then from being a baker, now she’s a firefighter in Georgia. So she totally did a 360. So we don’t know where our career pathways may take us, but we want to be ready and make sure that New York City kids have the tools that they need.

So I’m in love with CTE programming. I love Co-Op Tech. I wish they would have more. They shrunk the amount of Co-Op Techs that exist in the city. They have one on 96th Street, where the child gets to work and go to school during the week as well, and gain world experience, build relationships. So by the time they leave, they can send their resumes out, and they have made friends and connections in spaces.

CLARIFY: More than 100,000 students are homeless in New York City. What do you plan to do about that? 

Joseph: I try to highlight it and fight for housing. If you heard my statement before, that’s one of the things I talked about that people don’t talk enough about. Even the other day when they have the City of Yes, that was something I highlighted. When we build, where are we building? Did we build any affordable housing? Affordability plays a huge role in this. And then another thing folks don’t think about is when we think about AMI, area median income, it doesn’t come from a city or state. It’s a federal thing. So the federal government is the one that sets it. For example, Westchester is one of the places they calculate in the AMI. When I was running for office, here’s my dream: to have a neighborhood AMI based on where you live. That would be how your AMI would be set up.

So it’s not housing that we don’t have. It’s an affordability crisis that we’re facing. How do we make those homes affordable for our New Yorkers, right? And it’s not only homes. I’m looking at homeownership for young people, generational wealth, building on that. How do we make sure that dream is still accessible to our young people across the city?  I have a colleague who always says, “It’s not a ‘I’ thing, it’s a ‘we’ thing.” So I think it’s all hands on deck with all branches of government, from city, state and federal to come together to decide on what we’re doing on housing. And to me, it’s unacceptable that over 100,000 students are waking up and sleeping in the shelter system.

CLARIFY: How do you feel about recent changes made to admissions policies across the city, especially in high schools? How do you think the City Council can make a more fair system?

Joseph: I’m still working on my statement. I think, again, it creates even a more segregated school system. I looked at the new criteria as if it’s by poverty. I may be the smartest kid, but I may not live in the nicest neighborhood, so that’s going to create a disparity already. They looked at poverty level, grades and all that stuff. And I always think, I always say, education should never be a cookie-cutter model. I’m smart. I’ve always been smart. I hate test taking. I’m not good at it. I think I’m not great at it, but I know my material, so I don’t think it should be based on those criterias.

I have a hearing coming up on school segregation, that to me, that’s going to widen up the gap even more and when we talk about school segregation, and I think it also is attached to housing segregation. So if I’m going to go to school where I live and I don’t live in the nicest neighborhood in New York, that automatically drives me—that’s where I’m going, because I’m zoned for that school. 

CLARIFY:  Metal detectors are controversial among students. What is your take on school safety, and what are the pros and cons of heightened security in public schools?

Joseph: As the chair, what I try to do is center your voices. There are times I go into buildings and I say to students, how do you guys feel about this? I think they should learn restorative justice. They should be doing other practices. That’s the way I see it. They should be able to learn how to de-escalate situations, and I think also their uniforms I am not big on. We push this a lot, but I know I’m never going to get it, especially with this administration, to have less school safety in schools and invest more in restorative justice and other programs. I’ve pushed that since I got here.

My students have always told me, “Councilmembers, I need mental health support, I don’t need cops in my school.” “Councilmember Joseph, I need more social workers in my school versus having school cops.” So we’ve heard that conversation. I’ve had it pushed back and forth. And this administration, I’m sure, is not going to listen to that, because they don’t want anything to happen under their watch. But one of the things that we are seeing, and it’s kind of mind boggling, I’m seeing a lot of weapons entering the school buildings. I’m seeing a lot of shootings around schools. Last week, there were two shootings around school. There was one in the Bronx, there was one in Brooklyn, and these were around schools during dismissal. So that’s also raising the alarm. How do we balance it to make sure kids are safe, but how do we make sure there’s not too many cops in the school? It’s not going to be an easy fix. I don’t have the silver bullet, but I’m always willing to listen to young people to tell me what kind of solution I should be working on and what should I be advocating for.

CLARIFY: How do you feel about standardized testing? 

Joseph: We should be doing a lot more project-based learning as well. I don’t think everything is testing. Like I said, I’m horrible at taking tests. I will sweat, I will cry, I will do all kinds of stuff. But give me a project, I will deliver an amazing project to you. Give me something else, I’ll do that. So I always say, education cannot be a cookie cutter model. I think we’re over testing our kids. This is my theory. I think we should be finding other ways to assess students without it having to be so much testing.

CLARIFY: Some students complain about school lunches. How can the Council work towards improving school food?

Joseph: I had a hearing on school food. There are some improvements. I just don’t think it’s moving fast enough. And if you remember, last year, there was a budget cut to school lunch, and I was yelling at the top of my lungs because I was already like, the food is already disgusting. And what are you cutting out? What are you giving the kids? Milk and a tray? Get out of here, because the kids are not going to eat it. So they were like “the kids are eating too much.” I’m like, “that’s the point.”

We do this thing called Cafeteria Enhancement, where the cafeterias, I don’t know if any of your schools have it, look like a Starbucks. So the kids are now eating because the food is packaged differently. It’s served differently. It looks amazing. And the number of students eating went up because the food is presentable. It’s not just, slap it onto the tray and keep it moving. You get to pick out your food on your own. You get to choose what it looks like. The Cafeteria Enhancement is the goal for me to make sure students are eating food. So that’s one of the things we worked on. I don’t know if your school will participate in the Cafeteria Enhancement. Need to ask your principal about that. Ask them if they applied. They’re amazing. And then they have the students take part in designing the cafeteria. If that’s where you spend most of your time, the input should come from none other than you. That’s how I feel. Everything I do is student centered. You guys are my stakeholders. You guys are the constituents that I serve and I work hard for. So you should be at the table, and that’s what we do with Cafeteria Enhancement.

CLARIFY: How has the expansion of charter schools in New York impacted NYC DOE students, but also New York City students across the board?

Joseph: Just competing for resources, competing for students. They’ll offer things that the public school doesn’t offer. And next thing you know, there’s a big drive which also increases our low enrollment. And then once they realize that they don’t have the services that we do in New York City Public Schools, then they turn the children away. We provide ESL support, some of our special education support…Charter schools don’t provide that. So that was always my issue. They get to cherry pick students across New York City. They don’t get to pick ENL [English as a New Language] students. They don’t get to pick students with disabilities, because they don’t have those supports for kids coming to their charter school. So that’s one of the disadvantages. Co-location, I’m not a fan of co-location. When the governor wanted to expand the cap on charter schools in New York State, I went to Albany to protest as the chair. So they did not move forward with removing the cap on expanding charter schools in New York. 

CLARIFY: You previously told The Well that you thought journalism programs are important because they give a place for students to “explore their identities, challenge the status quo, share their stories and uplift the voices of their peers.” But many students in school journalism programs report instances of censorship from their schools. How do you feel about that and what, if anything, can the Council do?

Joseph: Well, I’m not happy to hear that, because the purpose of giving you guys pen and paper is to tell stories that no one would tell, the stories you tell that I would never know, the experiences you have that I don’t share. So that’s why it was important for me to introduce this bill [Into. 1057], and also to make sure that young people’s voices are centered on, no matter what’s going on in the world. I would love to probably sit and find out what are some of the rules in terms of expressing yourselves. But the First Amendment does not leave you, just like freedom of religion does not leave you, when you enter the school building. A lot of folks don’t know that, so that would be something I would love to advocate [for]. And love to hear why administrations or schools are allowing students to be censored. If you have something to say, you have to say it, it’s your experience, and so therefore, how could they take away that voice? I would love to meet with some of these administrators and also have a conversation with the chancellor on that.

CLARIFY: How do you feel about a potential cell phone ban?

Joseph: Some schools already have certain practices in place that I like. They have the pouch where you put it in and you have to lock it. When you go to school, I want you to focus, not be distracted by phones. And that in the phone, it has everything in it, right? We have our WiFi, YouTube, social media, we post in real time. I would like students to be a little disconnected. I do that on the weekends. I try to disconnect from the phone, put it away a little just give my mind a little break.

I just want to see a roll out that’s equitable and fair. Our students with special disabilities that use their phone for medical [purposes] should be protected under that. There should be some level of protection around guardrails, and safeguards around our students. It should be a rollout, and it has to be thoughtful. And that’s one of the things I told the chancellor. It can’t be, “We’re banning all cell phones.” It has to be a thoughtful rollout, and we want to hear your voice at the center, because it’s going to impact you.

CLARIFY: You’ve called for Eric Adams to resign. Several people have announced they’ll be running in the Democratic mayoral primary. Do you have a favorite?

Joseph: I’m gonna throw myself in the race. I think it’s time that New York elected an educator as mayor, like Chicago did. Um, no, I don’t have a favorite yet, but I am talking to candidates. They have to be able to meet my values as well. And as the education chair, education is very important, and we need to stabilize that sector. As you can see, we’re on our second chancellor already. It’s always a revolving door around education. I want some stability when it comes to education and the chancellor. So the person who shares my values, let’s say the mayor does decide to step down, would be committed to me to see Chancellor [Aviles-Ramos] finish out the term, if it’s a special election.

CLARIFY: Why do good schools tend to be concentrated in certain neighborhoods and worse schools in others?

Joseph: Under investments, right? For far too long, under invested schools had it the worst. So one of the things I’ve done since I’ve got here is to one: I changed the formula for Fair Student Funding. That formula was outdated from the time I was an educator, and they didn’t have any weights in it. We changed that formula to fund schools so students, for example, in high poverty areas, there was a weight added onto the Fair Student Funding, now that school will get more money. Two: students living in temporary housing, as you heard, my number was 114,000 prior to the new arrivals, we added weights for students living in temporary housing, so there’s extra funding for students living in temporary housing to remove the barriers.

CLARIFY: I’m aware of this lottery system for middle schools and high schools. Could you briefly clarify what’s behind it? 

Joseph: Well, we don’t like it. We were trying to follow the model. If you look at district 15, they have an amazing model where they took away their lottery system, and all of their students get into the school. And that was something that was being fought before I even got here, so I’m still working. Yeah, district 15, look at their models. It was a very segregated school district. They didn’t let no one in. So they had a meeting. They sat down and they worked it out, where they took away screening from District 15, and it’s been working out well. So when you get a chance as a future journalist, look into district 15 and see the model that they have done, and that should be a model across the city.

CLARIFY: Do you think artificial intelligence can play a role in students’ education?

Joseph: Well, there’s some good. I passed a resolution, and I did a hearing on AI. I think teachers should be trained. I passed a resolution calling on New York City teachers to be trained to learn how to use it. I don’t think they should shun you away from it. They should allow you to use it in a safe way. There’s one software off the top of my head, which is AI that I don’t remember the name, but it’s used by Google, and it helps to screen dyslexia based on how the student reads into this app, it can pick up if the student has dyslexia or not, and give recommendations. So that’s the good part about it, right?

When I taught math, usually I would teach three different ways that the child could get the same response. And I think that’s one other way to support students, to use it as a crutch, to enter a subject but not use it throughout the whole time. I think it can be used for beneficial reasons. Help you, guide you on a paper, ask questions. I think you guys should also be working to create content in terms of, for example, a lot of biases in this AI space, because they don’t use Black and brown folks. 

CLARIFY: How could the upcoming presidential election impact New York City schools? 

Joseph: Oh, boy, that’s a lot. One, I know they wanted to do away with the Department of Education. That includes our Title I schools, who with a 60 percent poverty threshold, get extra funding from the federal government. Our Title III funding comes from the federal government, which impacts our immigrant communities. Our ENL English language learners, that’s where that funding comes from. You get Title IX, money that’s also [for] immigrants and helping families and parents assimilate into this program. So to us, it would be very detrimental to destroy public education, and I think they are on a mission for that, especially with vouchers, teachers choice, even when Betsy DeVos was there, that’s exactly what the agenda was, to destroy public education.

City Limits’ youth journalism program is generously supported by the Pinkerton Foundation, Harman Family Foundation and DJ McManus Foundation.

To reach the editor, contact Jeanmarie@citylimits.org